Maybe we need to hire Uma Thurman.
A little history on unions. Back in the days when the Industrial Revolution took hold in Britain and worked its way across the big pond to the United States a new breed of workers emerged as some powerful people. The French called them the bourgeoisie or the nouveaux riche. Owners of factories, the entrepreneurs of the time, found ways of making it rich. Some would say this came at the expense of others while some would say it came for the necessity of economic revival. In either case, many factories made their people work in dangerous conditions in which limbs may have been mamed, long-termed illnesses could be traced back to, and even sudden deaths, and all for low wages and long hours. So in order to help free the worker, the proletariat, from such atrocities unions were created to change the conditions; strength in numbers. A great idea. The power of the union got the worker better conditions, labor laws, and higher wages.
A little history on unions. Back in the days when the Industrial Revolution took hold in Britain and worked its way across the big pond to the United States a new breed of workers emerged as some powerful people. The French called them the bourgeoisie or the nouveaux riche. Owners of factories, the entrepreneurs of the time, found ways of making it rich. Some would say this came at the expense of others while some would say it came for the necessity of economic revival. In either case, many factories made their people work in dangerous conditions in which limbs may have been mamed, long-termed illnesses could be traced back to, and even sudden deaths, and all for low wages and long hours. So in order to help free the worker, the proletariat, from such atrocities unions were created to change the conditions; strength in numbers. A great idea. The power of the union got the worker better conditions, labor laws, and higher wages.
But along came a problem. Unions didn't know where to stop. The unionized proletariat over the decades demanded for more and more. Owners were forced to give into the demands. The worker (keep in mind this is NOT referring to all workers) in general became protected and even lazy. http://ideasoftim.blogspot.com/2009/09/50-mooch-84-40-crowd.html If they didn't get what they wanted, they went on strike. Bad workers were protected by senioirty or tenure. If anyone crossed the picket lines they became targets for violent acts and discrimination. They were called scabs.
What happened because of this? Companies moved across the seas for cheaper labor and less arguments. All of your computer questions about the American company Microsoft are being handled by those in India. Ford Mustang is being made in Mexico. Levi Straus jeans are made in Indonesia. The union had pushed for so much that companies got up and ran, both sides became pinheads. The companies that choose to stay still have to pay the highest wages in the world to their workers. But they did stay. These are true patriots!
And now this has spilled over into the public worker sector, espcially police, fire departments and teachers. Ohio and Wisconsin are leading the way. Ohio's bill is called SB5 or Senate Bill #5, which is over 260 pages long and over 9000 lines, (http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PS_N.html) and would take away the worker's right to negotiate the hard-fought-for safe working conditions, higher wages, and labor laws. And base everything on merit. How can you measure the fireman? "How many people did you save in a fire lately? None? You're fired!" Same with police officers and yes, even teachers. If everything was on an even playing field and the work was actually safe for everyone then maybe it would be okay to do something like this. But this allows management to pick and choose their favorites over others.
The governor claims it would help with the budget and has nothing to do with taking power away form the union. But in reality the only thing it really will do is destroy families. Pay cuts will happen without power to negotiate, even if one side would be willing to give up everything to help. Houses will go into foreclosure and the economy will get worse.
So, the union may have gotten too much power over the years, but what the worker has earned should not be taken away from them, whether they got it by power of the union or not. A good friend posted the following on his site and reminds us all about all government control:
- "We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their right to strike." - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933
Kind of odd how the GOP was mad at the DEMs for pushing an unwanted healthcare yet are pushing this unwanted bill. Shame on them.
13 comments:
Agreed, but union laws in the US are incredibly lax. Worker rights aren't guaranteed and it's perfectly legal in most states to refuse to employ someone if they say they'll join a union. In the UK everyone except those in special circumstances (the military etc) has the right to join a union. The "power" that unions have is often overplayed in the UK as well. Unlike in the US where union bosses are solely union bosses and are often part of the problem, sacrificing workers rights for personal gain, union bosses in the UK are still seen as part of the work force.
On the subject of moving labour abroad I actively boycott and encourage others to boycott products produced by companies which work in other countries to undermine international labour laws, a prime example of this is Nestle, using unpaid children in its cocoa plants.
Ultimately I think unionisation, if not certainly an attitude in industry that recognises the importance of workers leads to a stronger society and a stronger economy, certainly with regard to the circulation of money and increasing the skills circle.
Wasn't sure if you were agreeing with the bill or not, until the Hitler quote.
And I know you would never agree with him.
As someone who had worked for both union and non-union plants...I can tell you the need for unionization is on the rise again. The separation of hourly v. salary is nothing short of nauseating. Plant managers and owners have lost all desire to treat the "common" workers fairly. We are really running towards two classes in America. The "haves" and the "have-nots". Guess which one we'll be in.
Working in the union plant, I felt safe. I knew that if an issue arose between management and me, I had a course of action. Today, I face "fire at will." Odd that they chose a wartime order to describe what they do to workers these days. The safety of employees (which is the original reason unions formed) is no longer a priority. Production. Production. Production. Not enough production? Shut the door. My last job (non-union) lost 30 million trying to ship our work south of the border. When it failed, we paid. Now, I'm working for a real mom and pop shipping department that views the floor workers as an evil necessity. Not saying a union would fix it. Just saying how much manual labor has changed in 20 years.
Fact is, factory workers put their lives on the line every day. For what? So some fat CEO can get fatter. Machine guarding. Mandatory breaks. Fork lift training. Confined spaces...these were all things unions addressed through the formation of OSHA. Today, OSHA is a joke. The vagueness of the regulations is insane. Companies get away with violations all the time because OSHA is too afraid to stand up and say, "You are wrong and you need to protect your employees, regardless the cost."
Has the American worker gotten lazy? I don't see it. And I work the "front lines." I can tell you this. Companies are taking away rights all the time. Insurance is a joke, not a benefit. 401K? Please. Most companies don't even match today. Our futures are being chipped away as we speak. And it's getting more dangerous to do our jobs. Squeezing us into smaller and smaller plants. Narrow aisle ways to maximize inventory. Skimping on things like PPE and inspections.
It's getting bad. The GOP will get their way on this one. Money talks. And as our class (read caste) system crumbles into two well-defined sides, the fall of the union WILL be one of the major factors. As well as the laziness of Americans in general.
Did we cause it? Yep. Should have listened to those "Look for the Union Label" commercials. The consumer caused it. The rich-holes caused it. The workers caused it. We ALL had a hand it this. To blame the unions and only the unions is uninformed.
Hugs.
I agree with both of you.
Unlike in the US where union bosses are solely union bosses and are often part of the problem, sacrificing workers rights for personal gain, union bosses in the UK are still seen as part of the work force. Nicely put. The bosses of the unions are the faces of the workers and that's who politicians go after but end up hitting us instead.
Here is what I have against unions:
1. To get benefits at a workplace you have to join a union? Why? You do the same work that everyone else does?
2. Those who mananged to stay around long enough without getting fired are protected even if they are bad workers. This doesn't allow any new worker a fighting chance to get experience. This does not mean that all seniority should be taken away. If you are a good worker and earned that spot then fine. But we all have seen people who are pasttheir prime and need to get out....bosses even more than workers! But this protection you are talking sometimes allows the worker get lazy knowing they had someone backing them up.
3. The tactics used becomes violent at times. I know this is very personal and means people's livelyhood but I live by a huge steel mill was going to go on strike and then the company locked them out before the vote took place and then called in replacement workers. Some of the union memheard that the workers were staying at hotel and went to teach them a lesson. They found this person dragged him out of his room and beat him to a pulp and destroyed his car. The man was actually staying there overnight to get to his next appointment, he wasn't a replacement worker. Happens more than we'd like to think.
4. If someone is offering you better pay, benefits, and conditions, why fight for even more that may end the deal or allow the opposition to fall back on their concessions?
Now before you go off on what I have said, the above is not the majority of my thoughts. It's just what I have seen and don't like about the union. I did not say I wanted to see the end of the union. I am not blaming the union for the whole thing. I do know they are a major reason for it. But trust me, I hate bosses too! But we do live in a free enterprise. If I have time I will try and do a paper on the boss this week.
I do not like the bill as a whole. I understand there needs to be some changes in the workplace but to take away the workers' rights to talk about those changes is fascists. Hitler sucks. But so does Stalin and Lenin. Opposite directions, same results.
I'll deal with your questions as per the number you gave them just to save me repeating them.
1. I think one of the reasons Unions in the UK are maligned in the way they are in the US (that's not to say some unions don't get criticised especially by murdoch owned papers etc) is that things that are seen as benefits in the US like health cover, dental, and guaranteed holiday are written into law here. So there's no need for unions to go out on strike when companies want to cancel private health coverage here because they already have it guaranteed through their national insurance contributions. Unions most call a strike ballot on forced redundancies, pay cuts and the biggy which is pension issues. So it's a double edge sword for you i suppose because you would be calming the waters between companies and unions, whilst saving those companies money, but you'd also require a nationwide healthcare scheme like the NHS. I honestly think that that's why this bill has been structured the way in which it has, because capital R republicans want to shut down the discussion that needs to take place in America about bi-partisan compromise.
2. Workers rights shouldn't allow for negligence, and this protection of the lazy etc is part of the same issue as before with regard to how unions are run. Unions in the Us have become more or less self regulating, meaning they can pretty much set their own internal rules regarding poor work ethics and such. What I'd like to see is a better dialogue between workers and employers and really get back to what unionisation is about. Here a lazy or negligent teacher or police officer or airport baggage handler doesn't keep their job because unions know that businesses need to operate effectively and what's good for the business is good for them and vice versa.
3. I would disagree that violent episodes like that are a regular occurrence. During the last round of student protest for example the media made the whole affair look terrible, but actually there were tens of thousands of people there and only a handful of arrests. A lot of it is about perception.
4. Again a lot of what comes out about the negotiations is very poorly reported. British aerospace about 3 years ago announced plans to revamp their in cabin mode, they were effectively attempting to out mode their current set up in order to force redundancies after spending 4 consecutive years in the red, deep in the red. about 2 years ago cabin crews began to strike, asking for reassurances about jobs. Instead of negotiating BA decided to strip cabin crew of their right to free travel. Free travel you say, what do they need that for anyway? well because if you're a member of cabin crew with BA you're based at an airport and not with a flight, so if you're based in gatwick in london and you're on a flight to dubai you don't then work on the return flight so they offer free flights back to gatwick etc, which meant cabin crew were losing money by working for ba. BA refused to enter negotiations, a stalmate broke out and only 6 months ago did they actually sit down. BA came back with an offer to restore free flights on the condition that the staff took a pay cut, and refused to comment about the job cuts. The cabin crew obviously refused. So what it looked like from the outside when pilots and ground crew joined the protests was a whole lot of stink over a few free airmiles but actually the cabin crew were being shafted. So the perception of that outcome, the refusal to stop protesting looked like they were throwing it back in BA's face. Similar situations occur all the time, especially in the public sector. Teachers are notoriously underpaid, as are the police force so when the word redundancies start floating around unions are quick to react, the big bosses say "look at this ludicrous reaction and all the things their asking for like a working wage etc" and ordinary workers look like dicks rather than the union bosses and employers who want to shaft employees.
Undoubtedly the relationship between unions and employers has to change. A better regulation of who's running unions and stronger statutory rights would be a great stepping stone towards it. There are always going to be areas where workers and employers rub up against eachother though and it's inevitable that every time that happens you'll have palin calling for all unions to be demolished and some mid table university graduate calling for the collapse of big business.
Johnathon,
How DO you like your healthcare system? Just curious...
1. To be a part of a TEAM. Why should someone NOT paying union dues get the protection of the union as well as the same benefits and pay? If you don't want to pay union dues, don't apply for union jobs.
2. This has nothing to do with unions. This happens everywhere.
3. What about the "violence" associated with unsafe working conditions? Fat CEO's who KNOW the conditions are unsafe, unhealthy, etc and yet FORCE employees to continue working under these said conditions. Maybe not the same, but the results can be. Death is death. Dismemberment is dismemberment.
4. Why ever fight for anything more? Premiums go up. The cost of gas goes up. The price of bread goes up. The price of bullets go up. The last job I worked at (fortune 500 company) gave 2 percent raises at best, yet the cost of living went up higher. Not to mention insurance! Every year, even though my pay rate went up, my check went down or stayed the same.
But, alas. The FATSOS have won. Just like I predicted.
Had this been an era of strong unionization, EVERY union would have sent representatives to protest. Why didn't they? They're too scared. We're all too scared.
Don't tread on us? These colors don't run? Those days are over. We need to change the national bird from an eagle to an ostrich. Much more fitting these days.
Hugs
Well first of all I hope both of you remember, I am agreeing with you that these bills being passed are wrong. I am just explaining what I feel though started it all. And you can not argue that unions did not have an impact on what is happening. However what the government is doing in these places is not right. They are doing it for revenge and party lines.
Unions are not a conservative or liberal arguement it is a stupid Democrat and Republican arguement. GOP hates unions and the DEMS get kickbacks and donations from them. NEITHER is right for their thoughts.
Now on to your points.
Johnathan, I can't claim to know anything about British work places or laws, All I know is that the two countries are different so what works there may not work here. I could argue certain things but I don't think it will be necessary nor would it help anything anyway. From the looks of it I think you and I are in total agreement in points 2-4.
Being a teacher I know that we are under respected more than underpaid. Not many teachers complain about their pay, althoug everyone in the world thinks they deserve more. But since we do get "step advancements" and a raise each year perhaps our income grows faster than the average group. BUT if you have earned a certain income NO ONE should take it away. I wouldn't mind taking a pay freeze. I wouldn't mind losing some of my benefits except retirement if it means it would help others.
HS,
1. Don't apply for union jobs? I have no choice there if I want to remain a teacher. I am forced into it if I want to get any benefits. It's not about being on a team. I work for the community, for the future, NOT for the union. I understand we all work together and work for a common cause but that is not what a union does. It is not fair to force someone into a union just to get even pay to do the same job everyine else does. All workers should be protected by the law.
2. Hence you just proved my point about the American worker being lazy. I go to a store and wait in line and all I hear from the woker "helping" me is "when do I get a break?", right in the middle of our patronage. And at school when I teach, the students have the same mentality. They think they should get everything and that nothing is their fault. Sure, part of that is being a teenager but I wasn't like that and I was a major underachiever...by choice.
3. Two wrongs don't make a right. It is wrong for the bosses to be like that and it is wrong for the worker. BTW, Johnathan, I didn't say it happens regularly, I said many times it happens. And once is too much.
4. This is because the politcian does not care about the people. They want money. They would rather serve the lobbyists (GOP-big Business, DEM-Unions) than serve the worker and the average citizen. I hate politicians. I hate GOP and I hate DEMs. Sure I agree with the GOP more but not on everything. Lobbyists are even worse. All they care about is one agenda and they don't care what or who money is taken from to fill their pockets.
@hawkssong It's fantastic frankly, couldn't ask for anything more from a system. Everyone pays national insurance that reflects their pay scale from about £14 (20 ish dollars) to about 100 quid (like 160 dollars maybe?) for top earners in the city etc. No extra fees for essential medical care, extra income for the long term ill, cancer sufferers etc. After national insurance you only pay for dental work, check ups and stuff and fillings, but not for higher end work like surgical invasive molar removal which i've had and root canals etc. I find it astounding that america is the ONLY western 1st world country without a comprehensive state (or federal whichever word you prefer) healthcare system.
In responce to your answer to 3 things like working conditions should be on the statute book, or at least the responsibility of a government body. Here we have the health and safety at work act, means tightening up of insurance rules for employers, clearly defined areas of liability and the right for independent bodies to impose fines on companies who fail to meet standards.
@Gozreht I agree, bear in mind however that not all groups are on step ups or what I assume is inflation related pay? so I can see how easy it would be for a protest to get out of hand among groups where they are facing cuts when they're already in a bad situation.
used properly unionisation is a wonderful thing, unfortunately there's still a battle in some areas where either unionisation is being abused like it seems to be in the US in certain circumstances or it's completely non existent, Brazil, the africas etc.
My Brother, I just know what it's like to work for union AND non-union. And trust me, BOTH have their down-sides! When the union job I had announced the big lay-off fifteen years ago, the union and the company fought tooth and nail over who would stay and who would go. The union, of course, said "seniority rules", a fact that I knew long before facing a lay-off and a tool I had used personally to win bids on jobs. The company wanted to pick and choose, a fact that would have saved my job. The company offered a huge buy-out if the union would allow them to choose, but NOTHING (zero) if the union didn't back down! Nice. Real nice. They were willing to allow 250 employees go with nothing in their pockets. I chose to leave (since I was on the bubble) because I didn't think the union had a chance in hell.
The union won AND got a buy-out for the "displaced" workers.
When I went to work for the non-union job, we were told UP FRONT, ANY mention of unionization would be grounds for immediate termination! How's that for freedom? And honestly, when I first started working there, there really wasn't a need. The company treated its workers like family. The founder of the company believed that if you treated your employees fairly, they would work for you. Wow. What a concept! And it worked. Then he died. Two weeks after his death, the company had its first (but not last) lay-off! Two weeks!
GREED! Cut it. Dice it. Slice it. No matter what you do to it, it's all about GREED! And greed is wrong. We're not talking about more benefits when CEOs cut their employees throats. They lay people off to keep their mansions and their yachts! And somehow, the average joe thinks that's okay.
I'm not stupid. You know that. We share the same genes. I've just had a little more experience in this matter, working from both sides. Don't you vote for your union representatives? Why not run for one of those offices and become part of the solution?
Oh. Wait. Yeah....that choice is being taken away from us as we breathe!
And Jonathan. It's so funny. Everyone in the US believes government run health care is horrible. They all "know" someone in a foreign country that hates the health care offered! So funny...everyone I've ever spoken to LOVES their free health care! I know I'd love to have that choice! Even as a veteran of the Armed Forces, I don't have that option! I can go to the VA, but they charge you unless the concern is directly traceable to your time in the service! Go figure that one out!
Still saying. The USA is headed for a fall. Big time. We've allowed 1 percent of the population to rule for too long. Hiding behind facebook profiles and cable television, getting fatter and fatter and caring less and less about our neighbor.
JUST GIVE ME STUFF!
Hugs. See you Saturday! Mom says we all have to be happy that night, by the way. March has been a poopy month!
I haven't worked in a factory without unions but I have had many, many, many jobs and some in large corporations, i.e., retail, and now entertainment. You are so right, if the boss knows how to treat the worker then there are no problems. It's when the $ becomes king that things go down the cermaic trophy case.
I like my healthcare. I pay about 20% on major stuff but dental is all free because I pay into it. Would I like to pay less? Uh...yeah, but I don't want anyone to pay for me and take money out of their pocket to do it. I surely don't want to force it on them. Every once in a while I give my sick days to those who need it by transferring to them since I have enough added up. If one day I need it maybe they it will come back to me via the Golden Rule. But if it doesn't then I will deal with it then.
I vote every time for our union reps but they are too busy going to SanDiego, Honolulu, and Chicago (SERIOUSLY) with my union dues to talk about agendas. I don't want to be a part of that. I know I have a job to do for the community, so many times I bend over and take it. Maybe I shouldn't have.
And with that I will be silent.
Nice post.
In like a lion....
I'm glad you like your health care. You can thank unions for that! Let me tell you about my last job:
Insurance. Well, they took 41 dollars out of every check. I had a 3000 dollar a year deductible. No co-pays. So, in order to actually use my insurance, I would have had to charge up 3000 dollars first. THEN, it paid 80%. I rarely go to the doctor and take NO meds, so...basically, they were just taking 41 dollars out of every paycheck!
Dental? Laughing out loud! Typical dental insurance. Pull it and we'll pay some of it. Save it? Forget about it! All for 5 dollars a week. Free cleanings, though. Whew!
The fortune 500 company wasn't much better. They kept getting more expensive every year. I was paying out almost 60 a week for me and my son. Plus an extra 25 a week for my partner. But, at least we had co-pays and preventative.
As far as not wanting to get involved with your union. Well. Okay. But, like I tell the people who don't vote, don't complain. If you want to change the world, start by changing your own.
As far as unions meeting in fancy places to talk about agendas...yeah. But they learned that from their CEO lords. As long as something was getting done, I wouldn't mind. Crooks are crooked any where you find them.
And now I'm gonna play Charlie Chaplin, too!
Hugs
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